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shamanicshayminI wasn't going to post this on my journal because I'm worried about starting wank (which is JUST what I need. I'll vent some steam, only to have it blow up in my face), but I chatted a little with Sword, and well, since it's still stuck in my mind, I might as well share.
I want to smack almost everybody on this thread.
Just... the sheer fucking RAGE I feel. Several good points have been brought up (misandry does not exist in our society because we never oppressed men for periods of time for masculine traits, misogyny being the root of abuse towards men {they're "weak" or "not manly enough"}, women-only safe places should be for women only, men are NOT exploited through a woman's pregnancy, etc.) but ghsjkghdskjghkjdsgk. I won't discuss every little detail, but here's a few cents I'd like to drop on several comments.
What type of assault are these men you know terrified of reporting, exactly? Because in my world, *women* are terrified of reporting assault because they're not gonna be believed. And if they're terrified because they're gonna get called "weak"... well, news to you: that's misogyny! Basically, these men you know are terrified of being compared to women. I cry a river for them.
I don't know about you, but I find this a really fucking insensitive thing to say about male rape victims. The feelings that come in the aftermath of rape is a lot more complicated than that. What this paragraph reads like to me is, "Men are not oppressed like women, therefore it serves them right if they get raped/molested/abused and are not as important as female victims." FUCK THAT. Rape is bad for anyone, okay?
Male rape is seldom reported because of misogynistic beliefs (misogyny hurts men as well) and far more women are raped than men, and yet the conviction rates are appallingly low including for children.
The part I bolded may be true, but there's one little problem. Rape statistics are not fully accurate BECAUSE rape is under-reported, especially among men. I'm not saying male rape victims enormously dwarf female rape victims in reality, but the number would still be higher than what current surveys or statistics would tell us.
Being an immature asshole is perfectly okay because I'm not going to be ~nice~ or ~less angry~ or ~cuddly~ like the ebil menz expect me to!
Person: I'm fairly sure it's possible to be obviously righteously-angry and assertive without resorting to childish name-calling. There is a line.
Response: *keeps using the "Couldn't you be NICER about it and less angry and quieter and cuddlier and more silent and" icon*
Person: There is a difference between righteous rage and hurting your cause by making you seem just as hateful as the people you are combating.
Response: It's real cute that you seem to think being nice and polite will change things.
GOOD. FUCKING. LORD.
This is SUCH a black-and-white way of thinking. Have the responders considered that there's something called a middle ground? A color called gray? There is a huge fucking difference between being angry and being a childish dick. Being pissed off without resorting to prejudice and name-calling does NOT mean being ~nice~ and ~cuddly~ and willing to let privileged assholes rub their muddy boots in your face. While we're at it, politeness =/= doormat. Thank you very much.
Person: If you're talking about one individual who is doing something offensive, go nuts. Spewing invective referring to all men everywhere, or insulting a man who has not done anything except be a man, doesn't strike me as helpful.
Response: Oh you mean like men do? The whole "all women are sluts" and crap, and it's us that have to "play nice" when the male gender has spent most of human history pushing smaller groups over in the sandbox for their own profit/entertainment.
Annnnnnnnnnnd you're missing the point, responder. If someone's clearly being sexist/racist/homophobic/etc. and swears you out, it's okay to tell them what scumbags they are and call them out on their behavior. It's when you think, "Oh, you're a man/woman, therefore I have the right to treat you like shit even though you haven't said anything bad to me or to anyone else" that's not okay.
I'm pretty fucking sick of hearing all this whinging about how all men aren't like that!! So what? All men benefit from women's oppression, which means that even the men who aren't knowing participants in oppression generally don't feel compelled to try and stop oppression.
Do I have to say what's wrong with that last sentence? A woman that's influenced by misogynistic beliefs and exploits them to oppress other women is just as bad as your oblivious naive white guy.
Guess what-men are going to have to prove themselves worthy of not being treated with disdain and name calling. At least as far as I am concerned.
+
So really, I have no problem with making each man I come in contact with proving to me that he isn't worthy of being scorned and hated. I do know some men that I respect and admire. But they proved to me that they were worth my respect and admiration by not being part of the system that continues to oppress women.
Wow. So every guy is guilty until proven innocent? Including little kids that don't know any better and haven't even done anything offensive yet, yet alone know about gender dynamics? Sorry, that's not how I roll when it comes to my own beliefs in feminism. We are done, thread. Have a nice day.
I want to smack almost everybody on this thread.
Just... the sheer fucking RAGE I feel. Several good points have been brought up (misandry does not exist in our society because we never oppressed men for periods of time for masculine traits, misogyny being the root of abuse towards men {they're "weak" or "not manly enough"}, women-only safe places should be for women only, men are NOT exploited through a woman's pregnancy, etc.) but ghsjkghdskjghkjdsgk. I won't discuss every little detail, but here's a few cents I'd like to drop on several comments.
What type of assault are these men you know terrified of reporting, exactly? Because in my world, *women* are terrified of reporting assault because they're not gonna be believed. And if they're terrified because they're gonna get called "weak"... well, news to you: that's misogyny! Basically, these men you know are terrified of being compared to women. I cry a river for them.
I don't know about you, but I find this a really fucking insensitive thing to say about male rape victims. The feelings that come in the aftermath of rape is a lot more complicated than that. What this paragraph reads like to me is, "Men are not oppressed like women, therefore it serves them right if they get raped/molested/abused and are not as important as female victims." FUCK THAT. Rape is bad for anyone, okay?
Male rape is seldom reported because of misogynistic beliefs (misogyny hurts men as well) and far more women are raped than men, and yet the conviction rates are appallingly low including for children.
The part I bolded may be true, but there's one little problem. Rape statistics are not fully accurate BECAUSE rape is under-reported, especially among men. I'm not saying male rape victims enormously dwarf female rape victims in reality, but the number would still be higher than what current surveys or statistics would tell us.
Being an immature asshole is perfectly okay because I'm not going to be ~nice~ or ~less angry~ or ~cuddly~ like the ebil menz expect me to!
Person: I'm fairly sure it's possible to be obviously righteously-angry and assertive without resorting to childish name-calling. There is a line.
Response: *keeps using the "Couldn't you be NICER about it and less angry and quieter and cuddlier and more silent and" icon*
Person: There is a difference between righteous rage and hurting your cause by making you seem just as hateful as the people you are combating.
Response: It's real cute that you seem to think being nice and polite will change things.
GOOD. FUCKING. LORD.
This is SUCH a black-and-white way of thinking. Have the responders considered that there's something called a middle ground? A color called gray? There is a huge fucking difference between being angry and being a childish dick. Being pissed off without resorting to prejudice and name-calling does NOT mean being ~nice~ and ~cuddly~ and willing to let privileged assholes rub their muddy boots in your face. While we're at it, politeness =/= doormat. Thank you very much.
Person: If you're talking about one individual who is doing something offensive, go nuts. Spewing invective referring to all men everywhere, or insulting a man who has not done anything except be a man, doesn't strike me as helpful.
Response: Oh you mean like men do? The whole "all women are sluts" and crap, and it's us that have to "play nice" when the male gender has spent most of human history pushing smaller groups over in the sandbox for their own profit/entertainment.
Annnnnnnnnnnd you're missing the point, responder. If someone's clearly being sexist/racist/homophobic/etc. and swears you out, it's okay to tell them what scumbags they are and call them out on their behavior. It's when you think, "Oh, you're a man/woman, therefore I have the right to treat you like shit even though you haven't said anything bad to me or to anyone else" that's not okay.
I'm pretty fucking sick of hearing all this whinging about how all men aren't like that!! So what? All men benefit from women's oppression, which means that even the men who aren't knowing participants in oppression generally don't feel compelled to try and stop oppression.
Do I have to say what's wrong with that last sentence? A woman that's influenced by misogynistic beliefs and exploits them to oppress other women is just as bad as your oblivious naive white guy.
Guess what-men are going to have to prove themselves worthy of not being treated with disdain and name calling. At least as far as I am concerned.
+
So really, I have no problem with making each man I come in contact with proving to me that he isn't worthy of being scorned and hated. I do know some men that I respect and admire. But they proved to me that they were worth my respect and admiration by not being part of the system that continues to oppress women.
Wow. So every guy is guilty until proven innocent? Including little kids that don't know any better and haven't even done anything offensive yet, yet alone know about gender dynamics? Sorry, that's not how I roll when it comes to my own beliefs in feminism. We are done, thread. Have a nice day.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-20 08:26 pm (UTC)Oh God. Just.
Will someone punch these people in the mouth? Reminds me of the crap on F!S a few years back where someone said asking that people not be assholes equaled saying "oh if only those yucky feminists could LIIIIIISTEN TO MEEEEENS" and of course the "well-behaved women rarely make history" argument as a way of justifying the temper tantrums of screaming fauxminists and SJW culture. And ugh, the whole thing about male rape victims...so apparently men being afraid to come forward about being raped MAKES THEM MISOGYNIST?!?!!? Just...ugh.
Yeah. I'm definitely glad I ditched FFR. The whole place has turned into a cauldron of SJW bullshit from people who don't care about real social justice so much as they only care about Being Right.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-21 12:46 am (UTC)It's stuff like this that gives feminism (true feminism, aka "equal rights for women and all genders") a bad name. Poor analogy, but SJWers are like the HIV virus; they disguise themselves as healthy white blood cells when in reality, they take down anyone who doesn't agree with them and hinders more than helps the cause they supposedly "support."
no subject
Date: 2012-02-21 12:56 am (UTC)Ugh, exactly. And that's an interesting analogy. :/ But try telling the SJW people they're hurting these causes and they'll shove links to "Derailing for Dummies" and other like sites in your face and scream some more.
no subject
Date: 2012-02-21 01:50 am (UTC)Yeah I'm still bitter about having that done to me back in 2008.no subject
Date: 2012-02-21 06:57 pm (UTC)Also, I think it's RIDICULOUS that words like "idiot" and "stupid" are considered ableist slurs. We've used those words for thousands and thousands of years to describe someone with low intelligence who, guess what, are usually used against people who are NOT disabled. (Not to mention this implies that there's no such thing as disabled people with high intelligence. Think about that, SJWs.) How do those SJWs sit through your average classic movie or book or video game without screeching that they're being "triggered"? ("OMG GONZO CALLED RIZZO AN IDIOT IN MUPPET CHRISTMAS CAROL, SO HE'S COMPARING HIM TO A MENTALLY DISABLED PERSON, THEREFORE GONZO IS AN ABLEIST AND SO ARE THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE MUPPETS!!111!11")
no subject
Date: 2012-02-21 10:01 pm (UTC)Me too! Usually people who get called stupid or idiot are able-bodied and neurotypical and don't have learning disorders. Usually, they're average everyday people who do stupid things and act like idiots.
(Not to mention this implies that there's no such thing as disabled people with high intelligence. Think about that, SJWs.)
OH GOD YES. I never thought of that but it pisses me off to no ends now that I do. It reminds me of how I once told Lexi it was ironic how as someone with a developmental disorder, I felt I had to work twice as hard to prove myself half as smart as the "normal" people. I felt like a brain-dead loser for leaving my jacket and keys behind even though "normal" people out there have probably got stoned or drunk and dropped their keys in the toilet or sold their jackets for a grilled cheese sandwich. And yet those people are considered "superior" in terms of intelligence simply because they're neurotypical. Pisses me off.
Yeah. It's kinda sad how SJWs can no longer just sit back and enjoy something without being "triggered" or having to rant about all the "fail" they spotted just because a minority was portrayed as less than perfect or a girl wore a pink dress or someone said the word "dumb".
no subject
Date: 2012-03-04 10:29 am (UTC)